FM12 and Clan Enlargement

My Ideas for FM12 and the clans future are as follows.

For FM12 i think that the top 10 Managers should go into Group 1 (The highest FM Online Group according to FM11 performance). This can be calculated by using either Steve's HOF Table or Trophy Count.

The remainding members should start a second FM Online Game creatively named Group 2.

Group 2 should actively recruit with the intention of growing clan numbers. There should however be no relaxing of standards when it comes to recruitment. Also All Groups should play to the same rules so when players get promoted and relegated from the different groups there will be no different set of rules to play too.

If Group 1 loses a member mid season then the opportunity should be given to the highest performing manager in the next group down. If that manager declines the invite then it should be offered to the next highest performing manager down and so forth.

Simple Group Format - Top 3 get promoted , Bottom 3 get relegated at the end of every Online Game which in effect will be every FM Version that gets released.

Steve's HOF format involves alot of work so not sure if it would be utilised in the lower groups so may have to use trophy count or a simpler, quicker method.

Once we have 2 groups going a new website will be built to cater for multiple Online Groups.

If a member leaves and returns after he is replaced then he will have to start in the lowest group.

We can start this immediatly or we can wait for FM12. Once We get 15 members in group 2 we can look at starting group 3 and so on.

As all groups will play at the same clan times (mon,tue,wed 7-11) all clan members will be on skype so groups can have there own chat channel and also members will also be able to dip in and out of other groups channels. A good way to get to know new members and stay in touch with the old.

Another advantage of this format will be to ensure game speed by limiting groups to 10. Obviously for future versions of FM larger groups may be possible with the advancement of the network game.

The best Football Management game finally gets the ultimate online competition.

Belly,

Ok Belly, well thought out proposal so let's debate this.

Pros:
game will speed up,
more incentive to do well,
bigger clan, so new people to meet,

Cons:
lose contact with clan members in a different league,
lose rivalries built over a few years,
banter diminished by lose of characters from chat,
potential loss of members from clan

I foresee some members leaving the clan around summer time, as a few usually do, how will this fit in. Say for example Kim leaves in May to go paint balling, another member comes up from Div2 to replace him. Then at season's end we tot up promotion and relegation, and say Kim, who's been top 3 on HoF all FM11 remains in the top half, does this mean when he rejoins in October for FM12 that he goes straight back into Div1? Say for example, Kim has dropped from second in the HoF at the time of leaving to below whatever number we have in Div1, is he then to rejoin in October and to be in Div2? If the latter is the case then perhaps people will not want to carry on with the clan.

Also will the Div2 game not be devalued? If people or in and out all the time, will it not become a game that people will not be too bothered about? By this I mean it could be viewed as a big waiting room for Div1 which could be viewed as the real game, and it would surely be annoying for those in Div2 and not making progress to see people in and out of the game all the time, by going up to Div1 or joining after being demoted? Or say for example you are doing very well in Div2 and dominating the premier league, would it not be annoying to then turn your back on that and join Div1?

If this is going to happen and happen immediately then the current split could be:-
Div1:
Nathan (211),
Jim (108),
Kim (107),
Mike (95),
Steve (90),
Stuart (76),
Fred (74),
Oliver (62)

Div2:
Will (47)
Jonny (36)
Geir (24)
Paul (22)
Joe (-12)
Belly (-31)
Davie (-31)

Now say for arguments sake, we promote Will and Jonny for being next on the list, to make 10 in Div1 and 5 in Div2, with the hope being that Div2 will recruit some new memebers, this would leave the game as follows:
Div1:
Nathan, Jim, Kim, Mike, Steve, Oli – Prem
Fred – Champ
(Will, Jonny), Stu – LG2

Div2:
LG1 – Geir
LG2 – (Will, Jonny), Paul, Joe, Belly Davie.

Take into account that Geir looks set to get promoted, along with Joe, Jonny, and probably Paul. It'd be a pretty shit game for geir as the top team in the champ, alone with no rivals. It'd be a very shit game for stu in Div1 if as is likely he finds himself alone in LG2 and everyone else in the Prem.

So, as for starting immediately, I say no.
As for doing this next season, I think this is not what the clan is about and vote no.

I welcome the debate and perhaps thrashing a few ideas about might make this work in a better model? Oh, and finally, as for using my HoF table, it's easy to do with the spreadsheet I've made, Fred has had no problems.

My first thinking... no...
after reading...still no...
Dont like the idea of splitting up the clan in groups.

Stevo wrote:Ok Belly, well thought out proposal so let's debate this.

Cons:
lose contact with clan members in a different league,
lose rivalries built over a few years,
banter diminished by lose of characters from chat,
potential loss of members from clan

I foresee some members leaving the clan around summer time, as a few usually do, how will this fit in. Say for example Kim leaves in May to go paint balling, another member comes up from Div2 to replace him. Then at season's end we tot up promotion and relegation, and say Kim, who's been top 3 on HoF all FM11 remains in the top half, does this mean when he rejoins in October for FM12 that he goes straight back into Div1? Say for example, Kim has dropped from second in the HoF at the time of leaving to below whatever number we have in Div1, is he then to rejoin in October and to be in Div2? If the latter is the case then perhaps people will not want to carry on with the clan.

Also will the Div2 game not be devalued? If people or in and out all the time, will it not become a game that people will not be too bothered about? By this I mean it could be viewed as a big waiting room for Div1 which could be viewed as the real game, and it would surely be annoying for those in Div2 and not making progress to see people in and out of the game all the time, by going up to Div1 or joining after being demoted? Or say for example you are doing very well in Div2 and dominating the premier league, would it not be annoying to then turn your back on that and join Div1?

If this is going to happen and happen immediately then the current split could be:-
Div1:
Nathan (211),
Jim (108),
Kim (107),
Mike (95),
Steve (90),
Stuart (76),
Fred (74),
Oliver (62)

Div2:
Will (47)
Jonny (36)
Geir (24)
Paul (22)
Joe (-12)
Belly (-31)
Davie (-31)

Now say for arguments sake, we promote Will and Jonny for being next on the list, to make 10 in Div1 and 5 in Div2, with the hope being that Div2 will recruit some new memebers, this would leave the game as follows:
Div1:
Nathan, Jim, Kim, Mike, Steve, Oli – Prem
Fred – Champ
(Will, Jonny), Stu – LG2

Div2:
LG1 – Geir
LG2 – (Will, Jonny), Paul, Joe, Belly Davie.

Take into account that Geir looks set to get promoted, along with Joe, Jonny, and probably Paul. It'd be a pretty shit game for geir as the top team in the champ, alone with no rivals. It'd be a very shit game for stu in Div1 if as is likely he finds himself alone in LG2 and everyone else in the Prem.

So, as for starting immediately, I say no.
As for doing this next season, I think this is not what the clan is about and vote no.

I welcome the debate and perhaps thrashing a few ideas about might make this work in a better model? Oh, and finally, as for using my HoF table, it's easy to do with the spreadsheet I've made, Fred has had no problems.

Ok Steve - il try to address your concerns in order.

Cons:
lose contact with clan members in a different league, - Why - They would be playing at the same time and therefore be on skype at the same time.

lose rivalries built over a few years, - Surely this would not be effected - Players of similar ability would stay together and there rivalry would grow- The rivalries in place already are for players on similar performance.(not like Mike would lose a rival in davie for instance) - Also we would gain new rivalries with new members.

banter diminished by lose of characters from chat, - Dont get this one - But i think that Jonny and Nathan have proved that new members mean an increase in the banter , Not a decrease.

potential loss of members from clan - Why?

In regards to Kims Example where he leaves FM when the footy season finishes. - I Think the decision should be taken by the group so in Kims case and other similar cases the members in his group could agree for a member to go awol for a period of time and they could save his place for when he wishes to comeback so i dont see if being an issue.

In regards to it starting immediatly - I dont see why Group 2 would have to be stay in there existing teams or even in the existing fm game. They could start a new game and could even decide to play as other teams such as prem, Each Group could decide or if wanted to keep it consistent we could just start again with all managers in one of the divisions.

Also you suggest that no one would care about a group 2 or 3 and it would be a waiting room for group 1. Just look at GPRO. We all started in rookie and some got to Amateur but its not made a difference to players interest.

Remember as you said steve this is the debate not the decision.

I can understand completly that everyone in the clans have great levels of banter and rivalry and this is the main reason why you play FM.

If you wanted to see how it evolved without splitting up the clan in groups i wouldnt mind trying to create and run a group 2 which could consist of entirely new members leaving all the existing members to stay where they are.

Obviously if the clan decide to stick to a one game model then thats the way it will stay. I just see something that we could create that just dont exist at present.

Belly,

No